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发表于 2008-10-31 22:59:57 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

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tig56  
Junior Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fayetteville, North Carolina
Posts: 27  

Stick Welding

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I have too welded some black pipe schedule 40. I tried to Tig weld it and just made a mess. Every time the weld looked good a gas pocket would come to the surface.
I was told at the local welding shop too stick weld this pipe with 7018 rod. I would like to know what thoughts others on the forum may have about welding black pipe with this rod. Thanks

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:00:13 | 显示全部楼层
Rod1945  
Junior Member   Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3  

Schedule 40

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I watched a couple of fellows welding schedule 40 with the stick in one hand and an electrode in the other hand...much like gas welding...they were making an entry to a ranch...

really they were good with 6013...as it is multipy direction...vertical, hortizontal, flat...

Guess it depends on what your application is...

Thanks, Rod

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:00:25 | 显示全部楼层
mc-motorsports  
Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 92  



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7018 is the universal structural rod, not the easiest rod to start or run. If it's not too critical, I would use a 6013, if you just need a good sound weld, 6010 or 6011. But me personally, I would TIG it.

Not sure why you would get gas pockets, are you using straight argon?
__________________
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few. -- Shunryu Suzuki www.demoncustomdesign.com

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:00:35 | 显示全部楼层
tig56  
Junior Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fayetteville, North Carolina
Posts: 27  



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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc-motorsports  
7018 is the universal structural rod, not the easiest rod to start or run. If it's not too critical, I would use a 6013, if you just need a good sound weld, 6010 or 6011. But me personally, I would TIG it.

Not sure why you would get gas pockets, are you using straight argon?

I was using pure Argon. The problem is black pipe has alot of oxygen in the metal, thats where the gas pockets are coming from. I am not sure what kind of filler to use, but is would have to be something that can clean or remove the oxygen.

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:00:44 | 显示全部楼层
mc-motorsports  
Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 92  



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What are you using right now? Probably ER70-s2? You can try ER70-s6, it has a higher silicone content, silicone is a de-oxidizer. Those are to two basic TIG fillers for mild steel...
__________________
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few. -- Shunryu Suzuki www.demoncustomdesign.com

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:00:55 | 显示全部楼层
tig56  
Junior Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fayetteville, North Carolina
Posts: 27  



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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc-motorsports  
What are you using right now? Probably ER70-s2? You can try ER70-s6, it has a higher silicone content, silicone is a de-oxidizer. Those are to two basic TIG fillers for mild steel...

Not sure the rod number. I have one for stainless, one for aluminum and one for mild steel. I sent the pipe back to the company that sent it. The pipe is also painted on the inside, I think it was dipped in a tank to paint it. I tried stainless wire, the wire I have for mild steel, and also 7018 rod. I got the same results. As I was welding it a bubble wouild come to the surface and of course there was a hole.

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:01:07 | 显示全部楼层
mc-motorsports  
Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 92  



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May just be simple contamination. Need to make sure its CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN. I would personally probably start over with new material.

Which brings me to another point, since you've mentioned SS wire... I learned from a guy who worked at the power plant and has to have all his welds X-rayed, if you run into porosity problems for what ever reason, and you pop a pore, everyone knows if you go over it with mild wire, the pore will just reappear. Go over that section with 309 SS filler, works like a charm! But you didn't learn that here, I'll deny everything! It only works if you just have 1 little bad spot and the proper thing to do is grind it out and re-weld it.
__________________
In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few. -- Shunryu Suzuki www.demoncustomdesign.com

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:01:24 | 显示全部楼层
tig56  
Junior Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fayetteville, North Carolina
Posts: 27  



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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc-motorsports  
May just be simple contamination. Need to make sure its CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN. I would personally probably start over with new material.

Which brings me to another point, since you've mentioned SS wire... I learned from a guy who worked at the power plant and has to have all his welds X-rayed, if you run into porosity problems for what ever reason, and you pop a pore, everyone knows if you go over it with mild wire, the pore will just reappear. Go over that section with 309 SS filler, works like a charm! But you didn't learn that here, I'll deny everything! It only works if you just have 1 little bad spot and the proper thing to do is grind it out and re-weld it.

I have never welded anything as bad as this pipe. I cleaned the outside, but did not notice that the inside was also painted. It came to me tacked together. The weld just bubbles as the air escapes. I thought I could welded it with stainless filler, although the bubbles were not as bad, they still appeared as the weld cooled. Do you think it was the type of pipe or just that the pipe was painted on the inside?
I told the person that brought it to me, to cut the tacks apart and glass bead the inside of the pipe and I would try again. But this company feels that the paint has nonthing to do with the problem. Since then I learned that 3 other welders refuse to even try to weld the pipe.

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:01:35 | 显示全部楼层
mc-motorsports  
Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 92  



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I wouldn't touch it either! I didn't realize it was that bad. Problem is when you heat up the paint, it's creating hyro-carbon gasses which are HORRIBLE for welds.

At first, I though you were just talking about some crap material, but it doesn't matter what it is, if it's not clean inside and out, you can't weld it and get a 100% sound weld.

I would tell that customer to drop that pipe into a caustic tank, get new material or take it somewhere else, I would give them no other options. Bead blasting will only take off the paint so far back, there will still be paint inside that will melt and fume and contaminate your weld pool.

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:01:47 | 显示全部楼层
tig56  
Junior Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fayetteville, North Carolina
Posts: 27  



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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc-motorsports  
I wouldn't touch it either! I didn't realize it was that bad. Problem is when you heat up the paint, it's creating hyro-carbon gasses which are HORRIBLE for welds.

At first, I though you were just talking about some crap material, but it doesn't matter what it is, if it's not clean inside and out, you can't weld it and get a 100% sound weld.

I would tell that customer to drop that pipe into a caustic tank, get new material or take it somewhere else, I would give them no other options. Bead blasting will only take off the paint so far back, there will still be paint inside that will melt and fume and contaminate your weld pool.

Thanks for all the information, I am a Machinist and not a welder so I was not 100 % sure I was right.

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:02:10 | 显示全部楼层
mc-motorsports  
Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 92  



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You were dead on.

Learn aluminum welding and everything else will seem easy!

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 楼主| 发表于 2008-10-31 23:02:25 | 显示全部楼层
tig56  
Junior Member   Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fayetteville, North Carolina
Posts: 27  



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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc-motorsports  
You were dead on.

Learn aluminum welding and everything else will seem easy!

I agree aluminum welding can be tough.
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